Re-reading my statement, I can see the confusion; I was not saying that Landlord's Game was a derivative game; I meant that it was not an -opoly.
Though thinking about it, the 1939 published version was tweaked a bit from the original, so that version might be a derivative game...
At any rate, Triopoly is clearly a derived game that can be played as Monopoly in one of its modes; it does not make it an -opoly as defined here; a monopoly variant (i.e. plays pretty much like Monopoly... sometimes with "house rule" equivalents) that does not say "monopoly" on the box.
Triopoly's added complexity goes far beyond that loose definition.
I have to be AFK for a few hours, but will answer any questions when I return.
You and I have different definitions of "monopoly variant".
You roll dice and move around a board buying, selling, mortgaging, and trading properties - just like Monopoly. When other players land on a property you own - they pay you rent - just like Monopoly. You can improve your properties by buying various buildings - just like Monopoly. Doing so changes the amount of rent you charge other players - just like Monopoly. There are color-coorindated property groups - just like Monopoly. There are action cards that you draw on certain spaces that can give you money, chrage you money, or move you to another spot on the board - just like Monopoly. The playing pieces are different pewter tokens - just like Monopoly.
It's title ends with -opoly, Just Like Monopoly.
Clearly, there are differences. But if there were no differences, it would *BE* Monopoly, and not just a similiar game.
Anyone who knows how to play Monopoly could sit down to a game of Triopoly without any instructions other than what is on the board and cards themselves and know how to play.
I agree that it is also a deriviate game, but I do not see at all how it does not qualify as an -opoly.
I also do not see anywhere, other than what you just typed - where the category "opoly" is defined at all. Having a refence guide to what these categories mean would solve a lot of confusion.
I'll give you that Triopoly can be both an -opoly and a derivative game.
Understand where I'm coming from; we have basically three broad categories (not counting card games, video games and other such things): Monopoly Editions (i.e. they have "monopoly" in the title), -Opolies (these don't have monopoly in the title but still are essentially the same game) and Derivative Games, which may be based on either monopoly's gameplay (i.e. Careers) or iconography (i.e. Don't Go to Jail Game).
Furthermore, we have the standard versions (UK and US) and Boardgame Variants.
Clearly, we need a new category for Landlord's Game (Precursor Games, for example), which covers Magie's game as well as other similar games of the era (there is speculation that she simple refined a pre-existing game).
Regarding Easy Money, while it may be nominally based on Magie's game, its design and gameplay were clearly influenced by the already successfully published Monopoly, with enough changes to try to skip copyright issues, so I have zero problem classifying it as derivative of monopoly and NOT as an opoly for the purposes of this wiki. After all; the idea is to make it easy to navigate and use.
Regarding Ea$y Money; I expanded the mention to a section, to clarify MB's "idiot pill" moment for readers, hoping to avoid the confusion inherent in two different games of the same company sharing essentially the same name.
Regarding the bookshelf editions link: regardless of how many separate editions, we most often do not pluralize the title of the article, for example; the St. Louis-opoly page covers both St. Louis-in-a-box and multiple editions of St. Louisopoly (BTW> you sure there is a non-hyphenated edition? every edition I have seen has a hyphen).
I'm not "trying to undo" what anyone is doing; I see the need for a change and if I have time I do it because frankly, I might forget about it later. At no time am I trying to undermine anyone's work.
For the record, since I'm already defining categories here, I'd like to clarify a point about Custom Works which came up recently (I really don't remember with who); Custom Works (i.e. unlicensed versions made by fans) are considered "Monopoly Editions" only for purposes of the Big List or category classification; by definition, they are Limited (sometimes to 0 or 1), so they are never listed as Limited. Also, regardless of what the custom maker calls it, it is never a "Collector's Edition" for purposes of categories.
Finally, I'd like to share a trick with you; if you want to make a list of items and not bother with asterisks to make each item its own line (and don't want a space between each line, like in your games owned blog), use the:
Personally, I don't like the 3 tier categories. I've talked about that before. I know this is the Monopoly wiki, but if we are going to include non-Monopoly™ games, then I think a more descriptive and accurate title than "Opolies" should be used. Exactly what that term should be, I don't know at the moment. I understand the difficulty involved.
As far as Easy Money specifically goes, when I look at the board, especially the early ones, but really all of them (not counting Ea$y Money, of course) I see Landlord's Game, or even Finance far more than I see Monopoly™.
To me, the history is a big deal. And using terms like "-opolies" and "Derivative games" makes it seem like they are all copies of the One-and-Only MONOPOLY™. I realize that many of the ones made in the last 30 - 50 years may have been just that. But not all. Triopoly, for example, would have never existed without Monopoly. I have no doubt about that. It is, then, of course a derviative. But, something like The Game of Boom or Bust (released by Parker Brothers) doesn't really fall into either category. It was made by Parker Brothers, so it's not a clone of Monopoly, since they made Monopoly. But it's also not a Monopoly Jr. or Advance to Boardwalk, because *none* of the iconic imagery or names from Monopoly were used, it doesn't even call the starting place "Go". And, of course, the name has no "opoly" in it.
I think something less Monopoly™-centric like "Monopoly Editions" would be - of course, actual Monopoly™ games with "Monopoly" in the name. Then "Property Games" or "Real Estate Games" or something like that for what we now call "opolies". This would cover Pre and post non-Monopoly property trading games. I'd even prefer "Other Property Games" to "Opolies". I would also like to ditch "Derivatives" since that is a highly negative term. If you call a type of art or any artist's work "Derivative" it's insulting. I think makers of the games we call "Derivatives" would not like it very much. I would include Triopoly and such as "Property Games" and Advance to Boardwalk and Don't Go to Jail - those would be "Monopoly Spin-offs". And, while sharing on the subject, I would also like an "Add-ons" category, or something like that, for things like "Super Add-ons Version for Monopoly" or "Freemarket Monopoly" or "Stock Exchange" or even those "Free Parking" tilt games.
Anyway, I'm not making demands or being upset or anything. I am sorry that I whined about your "undoing" my edits. I just think there is a clearer and less biased way of categorizing these things. My suggestions might not be that way, or at least not the best way, but I think there is a way "out there". Thank you for your replies and your help in understanding.
Thank you. I was trying to find when the Horse & Rider and Cannon were retired when I came on this site, and saw that it wasn't listed. I don't know if they removed them at the same time they retired the iron, or if they did it some other time. I hate that they went from 10 or 11 down to 8.
It's hard to tell, given that there are still basic editions on store shelves that do include them, but if I were a betting woman, I'd say 2008, about the same time they changed the dark purple properties to brown.
Makes sense, was that also when they retired the money bag? If so, then it would have to be.
The only other time I can think of could be the vote. When they did the whole "Save your token" / Cat campaign, they were not included - only 8 were. Perhaps by drawing the public's attention to which of these 8 to replace with which of these 5 - nobody noticed that 2 were missing. But I think it would be safe to say that they were retired either then or before then, since they were not in the campaign.
Unlike the USAopoly editions and the WInning Moves editions - I don't think the Late for the Sky games are actually Monopoly games. Obviously they are based on Monopoly - but they are not liscenced by Hasbro like USA & WM are.
Some might even use the term "knockoff".
Orginally the LftS games had to use the naming practice of "____ in a box" instead of "___opoly" - but since Monopoly is such an old brand now (and the game has somewhat uncertain origins anyway) - Hasbro can't sue over ___opoly branding.
That all said - I have no problem with LftS personally. I actually own one of their games. But I just don't think the number of tokens they have can indicate a trend in Monopoly™ official games.
I also own a unpersonalized copy of Make Your Own -opoly (which is the name actually on the box) I am thinking of overhauling that article when I get a chance. If I do, I'll take pictures.
I really like Monopoly - a lot, maybe too much. :) I don't actually get to play it that often, but I like the artwork and the creativity and the history of it. It's fun.
Don't put down LftS editions; the company makes good quality games customized for charity, fundraising or simple marketing, keeping Monopoly in general in the public consciousness. I know people who buy the whole game just to get the tokens... and the money... can't ever have too much munny!
I'm not putting them down, I'm just saying they are not official Monopoly games. They - like Easy Money, The Landlords' Game, and Stock Block games before them - are similiar to Monopoly, but they are not Monopoly. The Winning Move & USAopoly games are officially lisenced by Hasbro to make those games.
Like I said, I own a LftS game, "St. Louis in a Box" (they still make them, but now they call them it "St. Louis-opoly". I have no problem with them. But since they aren't working with or for Hasbro, they are free to do their own thing. So 4 tokens, 8 tokens, 56 tokens, or none - what LftS does doesn't directly affect the main-line games.
Speaking of non-Hasbro games - I just picked up a used game from a thrift shop, which is also called "St. Louis-opoly" (3 guesses what city I live in, ha) - but it is made by a company called Metropoly. I'm trying to see if there is any info about them online. It's an older game, and I doubt they are in buiness, but who knows? They may have become LftS! :)
The actual name of the game is St. Louisopoly" (no dash).
From the box:
™MetrOpoly is a Trademark of H G I Marketing Services, Inc. located in El Cajon, CA."
Each space, from their "START" space (which is not on a corner!) to their "Gamble" and "Fortune" spaces (Chance, etc.) has a logo on it, from a real company that, I assume, was in St Louis when the game was made in 1991. Even the money has "Southwest Bank" on the front, instead of "St Louisopoly" or "MetrOpoly" or whatever. (Southwest Bank was a bank here in the area until they got bought out in the last couple of years, along with almost every other local or regional bank in America.)
From the name of the company to the seemingly haphazard way the logos are slapped everywhere, I have to assume that the "Marketing Services" company got those businesses to pay them to put their logos on the spaces.
There's no rhyme or reason to it. I mean one of the gamble spaces has Pizza Hut on it! It's not even like restaurants are in one color group, and automobiles are in another. It's just .... random.
Some of the places are St Louis landmark type things - The Missouri Botanical Gardens, the St. Louis Science Center.... But most of them are just random companies. Some national chains, like Kinko's and GMC truck, and some local businesses, like a realtor and a radio station...
I see now why someone got rid of it. It's basically a page of classified ads pasted to a Monopoly board. (Not literally, it's a decent quality production - I'm just describing what it looks like.)
Instead of hotels and houses, they have these cardboard flat pieces with pictures of about 5 or 6 different sized buildings on it - I guess offices that grow as you invest in your company? I haven't read the instructions yet. There are stands for the pieces, but not nearly enough for all of them. Maybe there is a stand for each space on the board or something.
The movers are basic Sorry-style pawns. Nothing St Louis related. I am disappoint.
I would imagine the reason it's hard to find information about the games is because they are pretty crappy games and not very good marketing schemes. I found where they were sued in 1994/1995 by Taco Bell for using the phrase "Run for the Border". So they probably don't exist anymore as a company.
I like that better. The problem I really have is the lack of destinction between Monopoly™ Brand games and games that are just similiar to Monopoly. Calling them all "Editions" makes it sound like St Louis in-a-box is just as much Monopoly as Monopoly Deluxe Edition or the Golden Token edition.
I am not against similiar games being on the Wiki, I mean I added one. But I just think there should be a way to organize official Monopoly™ Brand games from the other -opolys and such. (This would include Anti-Monopoly, Finance, The Landlords' Game, Easy Money, etc..)
How about "Other St. Louis Games" instead of Editions?
And what do you think about adding a category "Monopoly™ Brand Games" and "Games Similar to Monopoly" or something like that - as a distinction between official "Editions" and games that are not officially Monopoly™ but are similar enough to be on this wiki?
I'm not looking to call them Knockoffs or Unofficial or Unlicensed or Unauthorized any type of negative sounding word - just making a distinction between Monopoly™ Brand games and other games.
And just so you understand what I'm coming from (and why I'm not just basing it on manufacturer) - games by USAopoly and Winning Moves, etc. would be included in Monopoly™ Brand games just as much as games produced by Hasbro and Parker Brothers.
We're good as-is. I understand your concern, but we already have the "big split": "Monopoly Editions" and "Opolies", with a side-dish of "Derivative Games" (as opposed to "Board Game Variants").
The "Monopoly Editions" include "Monopoly" in the title and are, by and far, Parker Brothers/Hasbro or USAopoly, who publish Monopoly variants under license in the USA, Winning Moves Games in the UK and western Europe, Funskool in India, etc... while the "Opolies" include all other games that are Monopoly in all but name, regardless of whether they have "-opoly" in the title or not.
You'll notice that within these broad categories we have individual publisher categories.